Talk:Potency (history)

I feel that the new spell power does not actually add +1% per spell power point. Consider the epic Ornamental Dagger: pre U14, +50% from superior potency VI. post U14, +15 implement, +48 item to spell power. Now this would translate to +63%, correct? But instead, every single one of my spells (below lvl 7) has experienced a significant decrease in damage: blade barrier going down from 420 to 315, heal from 410 to 320, etc. Anybody else experiencing this? Manifest Destiny, 2:18 P.M. (EST)

Probably this have more link with the metamagic change than the equipment change. Previously, you had +50% from enhancements, +50% from superior potency (addind to 2.25, not x2), and then +150% from Max/empower (total a bit over x6 damage). Now you have +100 from enhancements, +63 from eOrnamental, and +150 from max/empower, adding to a bit over triple damage. It's expected for the high end to drop a bit, but the lower end raised a lot. At least, I noticed a bit increase on my caster that do not have emp/max. Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 01:56, July 8, 2012 (EDT)

Potency is Not Universal Spell Power

However on both the heroic and legendary Pansophic Circlet pages the mouse-over text for all three categories of Potency claims that it is. I checked the edit page and the Potency line items appear to be formatted correctly. So the reference to Universal Spell Power might be in the template, which I do not know how to access.

|enhancements = * {{SpellPower|Potency|131|Equipment}} * {{SpellPower|Potency|65|Insightful|prefix=Insightful}} * {{SpellPower|Potency|15|Quality}}

I checked the page 'Category:Enhancements,' since the Potency line items are listed under that header (see above), but that page only refers to class and race enhancements. I also didn't see anything which looked appropriate under any of 'Category:Item Display templates,' 'Template:Enhancement bonus,' or 'Category:Item Effect templates.' So I punt this to anyone who cares enough to look into it. Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:19, November 30, 2016 (EST)

• I believe I have found it. Template:SpellPower contains the following line item:

|Potency||Efficacy||Universal

I'd edit it to read:

|Potency||Efficacy||Potency

Except that I both do not know if that is a valid value for that field, and I'm also not sure on how long it takes for a template change to propagate, and I'd hate to leave all potency items broken for however long it might take to propagate not once but twice. So I'll leave it in the hands of those who may know the set of values for that third field which are valid, and who can possibly force a propagation. Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:28, November 30, 2016 (EST)

Potency is universal spell power. That said, game now uses a different wording (bonus to each spell power) to describe the effect. Perhaps the template could be updated to show the new description in the popup text. --Cru121 (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:52, November 30, 2016 (EST)

To my knowledge, it is not the same as universal spell power. It's more like an equipment bonus which applies to every spell power instead of just one of them. If you also have a specific equipment bonus to one spell power it does not stack with Potency. As typical only the highest value will apply. The new mouse-over text added by the devs in U29 illustrates this, as an item with Potency now reads something like "Universal spell power is a different thing." Here is the text from that update:

Updated text in many places to clarify that certain things that claimed to be bonuses to Universal Spell power were in fact bonuses to each individual (non-Universal) Spell Power. This is to reduce confusion; Universal Spell power is a separate statistic, and bonuses to Universal Spell Power do stack with similar bonuses to individual spell powers.

Also, see this dev post. Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 14:30, November 30, 2016 (EST)

• Why is this discussion on talk:Potency (history) instead of talk:Potency? Also, potency === universal spell power. They are the exact same thing. So, please don't change any texts without discussion and consensus, thanks. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 18:25, November 30, 2016 (EST)
  • Why do you use three equal signs when one is perfectly clear? Also, I see you didn't read the dev post I linked for your convenience. Here, I'll do your work for you:

  Potency lies. Potency says it is a bonus to universal spell power. It's wrong. It's a bonus to each other specific spell power. Potency gives +X Equipment bonus to Fire Spell Power and Electric Spell Power and Repair and Positive etc. Because of this, it won't stack with other things that give the same bonuses to those spell powers.

  There is a distinct statistic which is universal spell power. This is different from all the other spell powers, and stacks with all of them. It is a bit confusing. (Not quite as confusing as Natural Armor, which is a distinct statistic that adds to AC and can have multiple bonus types applied to it, rather than simply being a bonus type itself...)
  Now, the devs have been wrong in the past about things, but this is a fairly direct statement of how Potency and Universal Spell Power interact in a post where the intent is to clean up a prior labeling/mechanics error on their part. That should indicate that the dev was very conversant with the subject and not simply speaking off the cuff. And the dev claims that they are not at all the same.<be />In addition, I can easily see that Potency does not stack with an equipment bonus to spell power, which is not the case at all for Universal Spell Power. I put on my Pansophic Circlet (Potency +131) while also carrying an item granting an equipment bonus of 150 to Electric spell power, and my Electric spell power only increases by the amount of the Insightful and Quality Potency, while all my other spell powers increase by the total Potency on the Circlet.
  --Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 23:18, November 30, 2016 (EST)

  • To answer your first question about 3 = signs: http://www.phpreferencebook.com/samples/equal-sign-operators/

  Yes, I read Vargouille's post.

  While they may be internally different now, they are identical for how they are represented to us.

  ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 03:24, December 1, 2016 (EST)

• I recall the discussion, it's a bit vague. I guess behind the scenes they have some weird model how they implemented potency / spell power. Anyway, I have updated Template:SpellPower to use the newest description of Potency. --Cru121 (Contribs • Message • Email) 03:31, December 1, 2016 (EST)
• Okay, now that it's not 3:24 in the morning, and I'm not laying in bed on my mobile phone... I think I understand what the confusion is. Potency = all spells = Universal Spell Power. They are just typed differently, which is why they stack. It's like Strength, Insightful Strength, and Quality Strength; they all stack because they are different types - but they are still all STR. I hope that adds clarity. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:17, December 1, 2016 (EST)
• Your confusion remains. Universal Spell Power != Potency. Just because something adds to all spell types don't conflate that with being 'universal.' Potency is an equipment bonus which just happens to apply to all spell types. I see that Template:SpellPower still assigns Potency the Universal spell element. A better assignment which would avoid any future confusion between Potency and Universal Spell Power would be 'All.' --Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 18:19, December 1, 2016 (EST)
  • There is no "all" spell power in game. It's universal. I believe we've hit the end of the topic/discussion for now unless someone can add something new to the discussion. Strength = Strength regardless if it is quality, insightful, or vanilla... Potency = universal spell power. We go by the in game text descriptions, not what individuals think it should be or how devs say it kind of works behind the scenes. Until the in-game text description changes, it should match whatever is there. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 01:05, December 2, 2016 (EST)
  • Your claims notwithstanding, you are simply incorrect on both counts: Potency is not Universal Spell Power, and the in-game text does not call it that. "We go by the in game text descriptions" No, you do not. "not what individuals think it should be" Apparently what you as an individual think it should be does come into the picture. --Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 18:20, December 2, 2016 (EST)