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Template talk:QTL

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I'm almost back... Once I am back, I will spend some time revamping this template for Epic difficulties and Epic XP... Until then, please be patient. Big Grin ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 11:18, September 24, 2012 (EDT)

Honestly I don't think this template needs any changes for epics, just add a new table and label it epic. Temp could use a simplified code so one does not have to deal with new lines and aliment but, which I could do. Really could use a new item template that covers 6 same name items like those of druid deep on one page. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 13:23, September 24, 2012 (EDT)
I was thinking along the lines of...
Quest Name Quest Level Total Favor Patron Casual Normal Hard Elite Epic?
Quest 1 3 7 Patron  ♣500Solo/Casual
 ●♣750Epic Casual 		 ♦1,000Normal
 ●♦1,500Epic Normal 		 ♥1,250Hard
 ●♥1,875Epic Hard 		 ♠1,500Elite
 ●♠2,250Epic Elite 		Yes
Quest 2 3 7 Patron
♣750
—
♦1,500
—
♥1,875
—
♠2,250
—
No
Quest 3 3 7 Patron  ♣1,000Solo/Casual
 ●♣1,500Epic Casual 		 ♦2,000Normal
 ●♦3,000Epic Normal 		 ♥2,500Hard
 ●♥3,750Epic Hard 		 ♠3,000Elite
 ●♠4,500Epic Elite 		Yes
Quest 4 3 7 Patron
♣2,000
—
♦4,000
—
♥5,000
—
♠6,000
—
No
Total 4 28  ♣4,250Solo/Casual
 ●♣2,250Epic Casual 		 ♦8,500Normal
 ●♦4,500Epic Normal 		 ♥10,625Hard
 ●♥5,625Epic Hard 		 ♠12,750Elite
 ●♠6,750Epic Elite 		 ●36,125Epic
 ●●19,125Epic

...for an output. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 13:47, September 24, 2012 (EDT)

I thought about a number of ways, on same line w/ & w/o (), second line, using rowspan, etc. Then there is the users who would be trying to break down the information on whats be shown with a dozen numbers with yes, no. And just decided here be the heroic table and there epic table with out all the extras that weren't being looked for and keep it clean and neat. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 15:24, September 24, 2012 (EDT)
I also was considering some kind of mouse-over possible method. I really think it is easier and looks neater all on one page. Just my personal opinion though... ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 16:08, September 24, 2012 (EDT) (Posted from my BlackBerry Curve 9330)

Epics[edit]

I think it is time to revisit this idea. I know have a manageable grasp on how DPL works mostly, and these tables need a major overhaul. I'm thinking that they should be flat out converted to a phantom template and a DPL call template. Before I start working on that though... Do we want it to be all inline or do we want it split over two lines? I think that doing it as two lines would look less cluttered, but it would make the table less functional by messing with sortability (it could still be done, but would require a lot more hidden magic; which can be a pain). Alternatively, it can be done all on one line, which is fine for people with wide screens, but gets really hard to read for people without. I need some feedback here, and am willing to put together some mockups and take screenshots at various resolutions to see what they look like. Let me know. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 09:11, August 10, 2015 (EDT)

  • This has been sitting here as a C:PPoIs for well over a year and I've gotten no feedback at all... I'm going to try it as a single line first because functionality is more important to me than aesthetics. We can go from there later. DDOstream (Contribs • Message) 08:54, January 17, 2017 (EST)
  • Note: I actually started working on this on stream today!
    Change list:
    • Epic column gone
    • Epic values now accepted as parameters:
      |10 = epic/legendary solo\casual
      |11 = epic/legendary normal
      |12 = epic/legendary hard
      |13 = epic/legendary elite
    To be done still:
    • Make XP columns sortable again with a data-sort-value
    • Change order of columns to be | Quest Name | Level | Solo | Norm | Hard | Elite | Patron | Favor |
      Use total row for | Total | # of quests | Solo XP | Norm XP | Hard XP | Elite XP | Total XP | Total Favor |
    • Set up DPL template and use this as part of phantom for it
See EXAMPLES section of template for current appearance. DDOstream (Contribs • Message) 09:52, October 3, 2017 (EDT)

Is there any way to make this template not display the "Unavailable" msg for quests that have no epic version? For example, the table on The Catacombs has "Unavailable" with the red bar printed 32 times which makes the table ugly and much larger than needed. I'm sorry if this is just a work in progress...I don't mean to put undue pressure on. ⇒ Kkoliver (Contribs • Message) 05:47, January 4, 2018 (EST)

Complete template rework for DPL and versatility[edit]

I've been working hard on my project to make a template for quest tables and I think it's coming along nicely. But let me explain all my thought process from the beginning:

Initial thoughts[edit]

One day I was checking out Favor to see the max favor currently achievable. It hasn't been updated in a while (even though some parts of it mention the latest update) and the numbers don't add up. So, I went to the patron pages instead to see if they listed the correct favor. Each patron page has a different layout and they as well don't have the correct favor.

So with all the DPL tables that existed already for monsters, I thought that it should be entirely possible to calculate max favor using DPL. I started looking into details and my immediate thoughts were that if I had a dynamic table with the quests and their info, it shouldn't be that hard to add columns afterwards. Turns out I was wrong and DPL does not offer any column sums with its table format, but I started working on creating a table of quests similar to The Twelve#Quests since it was the format I liked the most.

Progress[edit]

While I was working and facing the difficulties of getting quest pages to cooperate with what info I was trying to gather, the programmer inside me thought that this DPL table should be parameterized to accomodate more quest listings than just the Category:Patron factions pages. So it became a template using templates. Of course parameterization has its limits (when the parameters needed to do some work exceed the volume of code produced, you should just do what you want explicitly), so it's hard to balance how general of a template it should be.

It's now at the point where there is a template with a simple DPL call (that can be used for more than just quests) and a phantom template that does ALL the work but I'm currently breaking that template into pieces so an editor can assemble them and do exactly what he wants using existing code. There's also a balance there between how abstract the template is (easier to understand) and how much code you need to write to make it work (as well as how much documentation you need to read).

Update: Since the last time I posted, there has been some significant progress. The phantom template (the one that decides how to present the data) is now using a meta template that calculates all the possible table cells and the phantom chooses which cells to display. This means that it's much easier to customize which columns are being shown and how should an editor wish to create a new phantom template. I've also encountered a problem with quests having epic counterparts in a different page. See the talk here: Talk:Different quests that share favor I didn't get much feedback on that, so I chose the 1st version and resolved the issue.

All in all, I'm not entirely sure I've thought of all the problems but it's a big project and I can't think everything alone. So I will start slowly copying the templates to the main namespace and apply them once I've resolved some last technical issues and do some polishing. If anyone cares to have a look at the project and share thoughts/opinions/bugs, speak up below. In any case, I expect people will start responding once the templates are applied and not before. ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message) 18:37, April 17, 2018 (EDT)

Update2: I don't remember what changes I have made since my last update. There are a lot. I have moved the templates in public space and written some documentation for each one. Also made a new {{Patron}} template that will use the quest listing. I've applied the patron template to Agents of Argonnessen. I still haven't gotten any objections to the quest table layout so I will be applying the patron template to more patrons as I fix the NPC pages to display correctly.

As for the rest of the pages that use quest tables, I will get to them as well. However, there are some changes to the {{Quest}} template pending to allow quest listing by adventure pack or by location. ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message) 16:34, May 16, 2018 (EDT)

Details[edit]

Feedback[edit]

As the templates are nearing completion, I would like some feedback:

  • What is the desired format for each page that needs a quest table? Obviously, patron pages don't need to have patron info and level pages don't need to have the quest level info.
  • Are there any edge cases I need to watch out for? I'm going through all the quests by level to test and quests like Devil Assault (quest) presented some problems that required code modification.
  • Are the templates usable by the average wiki editor? I'm trying to have a full documentation and make the template interface as easy as possible.
  • Is the template code humanly readable? Any coding standards I should employ? I won't be around forever to maintain the templates and we already have too many templates that can't even be read by their creator. Also, code structure helps spot and eliminate bugs.
  • Any features I could add or make space for future addition? I thought about having the loading screen of a quest pop-up when you hover over the quest name. Then thought it may obstruct table view and decided against it.
  • Any other comments?

In my User:Faltout/SandBox#Template tests you will find at least one application of the template at any given time. However, I'm changing them quite frequently to test more quests and debug so I'm leaving an example below. Hope to see some feedback :) ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message) 14:16, March 26, 2018 (EDT)

Replies[edit]

Leave your reply here:

I never delved into DPL, looks complicated. I do like the result though. In general, these aren't templates that an average Joe has to use; it seems like once the pages are set up, all is going to work automatically. When a new adventure pack or patron is introduced, I assume that even the average Joe would be able to copy the short DPL call and replace category name in it.

Anyway, if this works, it will eliminate quite a lot of tedious editing and math to update the zillion articles about quest by XY. And standardized look is also nice to have. So thanks! --⇒ Cru121 (Contribs • Message) 01:12, March 27, 2018 (EDT)

Examples[edit]

Example #1: 

{{DPL category table
  | template = Template:Quest
  | categories = The Twelve patron quests
  | phantom = Patron quest table row
  | notcategories = History
}}
Quest name Heroic Epic Max favor Adventure pack Acquired in Bestowed by ♣Casual ♦Normal ♥Hard ♠Elite
18 27 The Vale of Twilight The Marketplace Brunaccio Patroclus — ♦8,200 ♥8,500 ♠8,800
17 33 The Vale of Twilight Meridia Aaseamah Screven — ♦11,540 ♥11,980 ♠12,420
16 24 The Vale of Twilight The Vale of Twilight Walk-up ♣4,860 ♦8,433 ♥8,766 ♠9,099
16 24 The Vale of Twilight The Vale of Twilight Walk-up ♣5,359 ♦9,300 ♥9,668 ♠10,036
17 21 Reign of Madness The Tower of the Twelve Elawyn Thwr ♣3,792 ♦6,570 ♥6,819 ♠7,067
17 21 Reign of Madness The Twelve Rorry Malcanus ♣3,485 ♦6,036 ♥6,265 ♠6,493
17 21 Reign of Madness The Tower of the Twelve Horace Neble ♣3,110 ♦5,386 ♥5,590 ♠5,793
6 21 15 White Plume Mountain and Other Tales The Twelve Bimbog Jabyt ♣1,773
●♣10,287 		♦3,160
●♦17,727 		♥3,364
●♥18,308 		♠3,568
●♠18,889
18 26 21 Heart of Madness The Twelve Verona Jethro ♣4,677
●♣17,380 		♦8,092
●♦29,810 		♥8,388
●♥30,654 		♠8,684
●♠31,498
17 18 Reign of Madness The Tower of the Twelve Krannoch Flamehand ♣3,142 ♦5,443 ♥5,648 ♠5,854
6 25 15 White Plume Mountain and Other Tales The Twelve Dorris ♣2,277
●♣15,068 		♦4,060
●♦25,866 		♥4,324
●♥26,619 		♠4,588
●♠27,371
16 24 The Vale of Twilight The Vale of Twilight Walk-up ♣3,900 ♦6,766 ♥7,033 ♠7,299
15 31 18 The Vale of Twilight Meridia Trull Knopper ♣3,254
●♣15,607 		♦5,655
●♦26,672 		♥5,886
●♥27,331 		♠6,118
●♠27,991
6 23 12 White Plume Mountain and Other Tales The Twelve Tara Fenwyth ♣1,723
●♣10,666 		♦3,070
●♦18,342 		♥3,268
●♥18,906 		♠3,466
●♠19,471
32 36 Free The Marketplace Niara Tonant — ●♦35,340 ●♥36,194 ●♠37,050
15 18 Free The Twelve Magus Littleton ♣2,378 ♦4,132 ♥4,300 ♠4,467
6 21 12 White Plume Mountain and Other Tales The Twelve Nymue Elethiel ♣1,723
●♣9,989 		♦3,070
●♦17,214 		♥3,268
●♥17,778 		♠3,466
●♠18,342
16 24 The Vale of Twilight The Vale of Twilight Walk-up ♣4,091 ♦7,099 ♥7,379 ♠7,659
16 24 The Vale of Twilight The Vale of Twilight Walk-up ♣4,284 ♦7,433 ♥7,726 ♠8,020
18 26 21 Heart of Madness The Twelve Kier d'Phiarlan ♣2,971
●♣11,023 		♦5,139
●♦18,904 		♥5,326
●♥19,436 		♠5,513
●♠19,968
19 18 The Devils of Shavarath Amrath Gustor Miles ♣1,486 ♦2,566 ♥2,654 ♠2,742
19 18 The Devils of Shavarath Amrath Mystichaze Shastien ♣3,723 ♦6,432 ♥6,658 ♠6,885
18 27 The Vale of Twilight The Marketplace Delvarrion Iravati — ♦8,200 ♥8,500 ♠8,800
32 36 The Vale of Twilight The Marketplace Tala Brin — ●♦35,340 ●♥36,194 ●♠37,050
18 26 21 Heart of Madness The Twelve Durk the Deranged ♣3,263
●♣12,109 		♦5,644
●♦20,767 		♥5,849
●♥21,352 		♠6,054
●♠21,937
34 27 Illithid Invasion Sharn - Clifftop Tower District Rular Brigmore ●♣19,562 ●♦33,373 ●♥34,143 ●♠34,912
34 27 Illithid Invasion Sharn - Clifftop Tower District Carronade ●♣19,562 ●♦33,373 ●♥34,143 ●♠34,912
34 27 Illithid Invasion Sharn - Clifftop Tower District Tassinith ●♣19,562 ●♦33,373 ●♥34,143 ●♠34,912
34 27 Illithid Invasion Sharn - Clifftop Tower District Viryn Starglen ●♣17,407 ●♦29,696 ●♥30,380 ●♠31,064
Total 29
Quests 		14
Epic 		657
Total favor 		6230
FreeVIPXpack

Example #2: 

{{DPL category table
  | template = Template:Quest
  | categories = Three-Barrel Cove quests
  | phantom = Patron quest table row
  | notcategories = History
}}
Quest name Heroic Epic Max favor Adventure pack Acquired in Bestowed by ♣Casual ♦Normal ♥Hard ♠Elite
5 9 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Lars Riflee ♣709 ♦1,266 ♥1,349 ♠1,433
7 12 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Rosie the Jinx ♣1,500 ♦2,660 ♥2,820 ♠2,980
7 15
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Red Tom ♣1,908 ♦3,385 ♥3,590 ♠3,796
5 9 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Idas ♣1,230 ♦2,200 ♥2,350 ♠2,500
5 12 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Idas ♣2,140 ♦3,833 ♥4,100 ♠4,366
6 12 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Red Tom ♣1,320 ♦2,350 ♥2,500 ♠2,650
5 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Laurent Chastel ♣2,056 ♦3,684 ♥3,940 ♠4,196
5 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Marteen Worley ♣1,620 ♦2,900 ♥3,100 ♠3,300
5 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Dirty Vingus ♣1,723 ♦3,086 ♥3,300 ♠3,513
(heroic: Old Grey Garl)
 25 15
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Tarfoot Brynne ●♣11,757 ●♦20,181 ●♥20,767 ●♠21,352
25 21 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Niles Cage ●♣11,231 ●♦19,277 ●♥19,836 ●♠20,394
25 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Fearless Frida ●♣14,617 ●♦25,091 ●♥25,821 ●♠26,550
25 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Marteen Worley ●♣11,457 ●♦19,665 ●♥20,235 ●♠20,805
25 12
(shared)
 Three-Barrel Cove Three-Barrel Cove Dirty Vingus ●♣12,209 ●♦20,957 ●♥21,564 ●♠22,173
Total 14
Quests 		5
Epic 		126
Total favor 		0140
FreeVIPXpack

Quest Grouping[edit]

There has been some discussion on Talk:Masterminds_of_Sharn about adding an optional column for a quest index - for example MoS has two series of quests and numbering them 1.1-1.5 and 2.1-2.4. I think this might be a good addition if its easy to do (ie adding a column for the index, suppressing the column if the field doesn't exists). This should probably allow grouping or splitting the table (MoS would be arc 1, arc 2 and cog) but I think this is overly challenging given the many different types of quest groupings. Thoughts??? ⇒ Christopher G Lewis (Contribs • Message) 09:54, June 1, 2019 (EDT)

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