User talk:MorpheusAlpha

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Kobold worker 15:03, December 05, 2014

DM, gamer, D&D enthusiast, though I think 3rd ed is only viable with a computer to juggle all the encounter variables, thus I love DDO.

MorpheusAlpha (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 15:03, December 5, 2014 (EST)

The Pirates of the Thunder Sea (heroic)

This is potentially the easiest of the sagas to do and is therefore an easy way to get xp for a higher level character or renown for a Guild. Further information below is specific to this saga, though it may be true for all sagas. As I have only done this particular saga, I can only guarantee that the following information is true for this saga alone:

This saga can be completed in its entirety in roughly two hours, less if one is familiar with the quests. This does not include using a VIP skip or spending Astral Shards to skip a quest in this saga. If one of these options is taken the saga can be completed in less time. For those who wish to use their VIP skip, as this does not seem to be a good way to spend Astral Shards, it is recommended that it be used for one of the following quests: Irestone Inlet, The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias, Prove Your Worth, or Ghost of a Chance. The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias seems to be the most popular choice as it is considered a frustratingly long mission with the back and forth running and swimming required to complete it. It is not recommended for the Garl's Tomb quests as the first is a prerequisite for the second, and using a VIP skip on the first quest (The Troglodytes Get) may not advance the storyline to the second quest (Grey Garl's Tomb), though this has not been tested. Skipping any of the Sentinels of Stormreach storyline quests may not advance the four-quest storyline and may not give the bonus end reward for completing the storyline. Again, this has not been tested, but it might be best to not skip any of the Sentinels quests just in case. In spite of this it is tempting to skip The Bargain Bazaar due to its long run in across a wilderness zone.

If this saga is being run for Guild Renown, there is a method that will allow the best possible returns for a Guild Renown potion. The potion does not have to be in effect for the entire first saga. It can be used immediately after finishing the last quest in the chain and before talking to the contact, Drell Jake. The potion will multiply the end of saga Renown reward; my VIP account character in a 15 member guild had the 15,000 True Elite renown reward become a 139,500 renown reward by use of a Greater Guild Renown potion. If the completing character does no other quests until the saga timer resets, the saga can be completed again before the potion's 3 hour duration ends. For those who can complete the saga at a higher speed by using a skip and/or doing only the basics required for quest completion, it is likely that the saga can be completed three times before the potion expires. Thus the combination of this saga and a single Greater Guild Renown potion can potentially earn a guild over 400,000 renown.

Also be aware that if the saga is completed by a character of up to 14th level, the end of saga reward list may include an additional reward of 'Heroic Deeds' or 'Tales of Renown'. Remember to NOT click on this choice or you will have just burned a couple of hours of play time for a heck of a lot less renown!

Again, these notes MAY be true for all sagas. However, as I have not played the other sagas yet, I can only guarantee that this information is true for THIS saga.

Hi, the wiki admins have (repeatedly) edited out your changes to the article. Sorry about that. Your contributions were unfortunately somewhat wordy and written from your personal perspective. I have tried to move the relevant points to the appropriate location.

In the The Pirates of the Thunder Sea (heroic) article, we now have the following information from you:

• timer bug
• tip about it being a good renown farming spot for low level characters

In the Saga article, I have added the following that applies universally to sagas:

• effects that increase experience or renown gain also apply to saga end rewards
• tip about when to drink elixir (before collecting rewards)
• smaller renown reward trap

Thanks for contributing. I hope this rather heavy editing won't discourage you from further edits. Please don't hesitate to ask or discuss these changes, for example here.

--Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 02:48, December 7, 2014 (EST)

First of all, this saga is a good renown/xp farming spot for ANY level of character, especially for those who solo. With higher level (15-20) characters the saga runs pretty damn quickly and can provide a very good renown reward or a nice xp reward (I assume that. I've just been getting renown so far. I will have to make a test run to be certain, so I could not post that it would do so in a wiki page) too, especially if one is tired of getting slaughtered by at-level or near-level content, some of which is all but impossible to solo, even with an onyx panther, an 18th level skeletal warrior, and a standard hireling. Especially if the wiki quest entries leave out information that could help.

The biggest issue I've had with this wiki is when insufficient information is given for someone who does not have the full knowledge of the original poster/editor. There is way too much in the way of assumed knowledge, which means that this wiki isn't as useful for someone who doesn't already know most of the info and is just looking for an extra tidbit. I've been playing this game, mostly solo, for five years. As a solo player, I don't have a wealth of in-game friends to rely on for information because my schedule means I'm on only at odd times and for uncertain lengths. Thus there's still a ton of stuff I don't know. Wikis like this are my only way of getting ideas of what to do or how to do it best. However, due to aggressive editing, there are a lot of times when information is left out because the poster/editor knows what he/she is talking about, therefore everyone should. For example, putting 'go through the doors that have a blue gem over them to not get stuck when running the Tomb of the Shadow Lord quest solo' would have saved me a frustrating late-game dimension door spell and running through the entire thing again, but it apparently wasn't needed because the OP/editor knew which path to take, thus we have the vague 'upper door' and the vague 'northern door' with no frame of reference. Frustrating.

Since my earlier contributions to the Saga had been tossed out without an explanation like you gave for this heavy edit, and don't misunderstand me; I do appreciate your explanation, I went back and put the information in while explaining that this information could only be guaranteed true for THIS saga because that was I had done it in. Excessively verbose? Perhaps. But it was the only way I had of not having someone who already knew all this come by and toss it in the trash with a 'this belongs elsewhere' aside. And, yes, I had done this from a 'personal' viewpoint with what was considered non-essential information because of the limits of my experience with sagas. Like any good scientist I presented my findings, explained my methods and materials so others could try to replicate them, and gave my results. That was the best way I know of putting the information out there so others who were as new as I had been to the world of sagas could learn from and perhaps repeat my experiences for their benefit. And could also try to replicate my experience in this saga on other sagas and determine if the information applied across the board or if it was specific to just this saga.

This wiki has a wealth of information. There is a lot to be learned here. But most of the information is only of use to people who already are familiar with the subjects of the entries, or who are willing to do the frustrating job of hunting down information across a dozen other pages because, like in this case with a specific saga, the specific saga information page just says "This is a saga." and provides zero information on effective running of this particular saga or advantages/disadvantages of doing it a certain way. I have now run this saga over two dozen times while trying to get my mostly solo Guild from level 27 to level 40 (one more run and I'm there!). The general saga page wasn't much help in finding ways to effectively do THIS saga. The individual quest pages offered me little insight in how to do this saga. The page for this particular saga repeated the end of saga awards (which was already available on the main saga page and, judging by my first editor who threw my notes in the trash, the redundant saga awards should be tossed too since they are already in existence elsewhere), and gave me information on how often the saga could be repeated, which wasn't helpful because it wasn't accurate.

I tried to contribute to make what I consider to be a needed but currently often unhelpful resource even better. I am angry and frustrated that most of my additional information which dealt with ways I have effectively run a particular saga was considered worthless, while the short paragraph about the similarities between the General Manager in Bargain of Blood and a Mad Max villain is considered worth keeping.

Are the above paragraphs excessively verbose? Possibly. But simply saying "WTF, yo?" in reply, while it might be in line with quite a few of the entries in this wiki, would be as unhelpful as quite a few of the entries in this wiki.

Note: I am in full snark mode and angry, but not directly at you, Cru121, and I am sorry and I do apologize if you feel I am blasting you because that is not my intent. All I wanted to do is supply useful information that I wished I had had access to before I began running sagas and certain quests but that was not available. Perhaps there is a better place for me to post newbie guides and other information that will actually help newbies, but if there is I am not sure where it would be.

— previous unsignedPlease sign posts using ~~~~ comment by MorpheusAlpha ^{( c | e | d | r | b )} at 16:14, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

-sigh- Right, I'm still learning the wiki thing and have no clue how to sign stuff yet obviously, so the above rant and this comment was made by me, Patrick, MorpheusAlpha, whatever. Sorry.

I understand your frustrations. Although it may seem improbable to you, we have not discarded the bulk of your changes on a whim as a despotic admin action. :-) Answering some points:

• Saga is not good exp for all. The saga is okay for renown. However, if you look at epic sagas, you can notice overlapping quests in multiple sagas. On highest level of play, you can run all saga quests, drink elixir, and collect all rewards. This is more effective (and probably also more fun for most people) than sleepwalking through low-level saga.
• Assumed knowledge might be a problem. The tip about blue gem is imho worth mentioning. Personally, I found the information about upper/north sufficient. I had more problems about one more barrier between these two doors, where two switches need to be flipped simultaneously to proceed. This is not mentioned in the article at all. Looking at the page history, this information was thrown away by an anonymous editor. Yeah, Tomb of the Shadow Lord could use an update.
• I have never really explored wikipedia posting standards, but here's some information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars. Particularly important for your case might be neutral point of view. Editors' personal experiences, interpretations, or opinions do not belong.
• I guess you could post your saga experience on the official forums under Guides & Strategies or New Player Advice & Guidance. Then maybe add the link to your guide to the saga article as See also.

--Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 11:56, December 8, 2014 (EST)

I'm fine with editing. I do it all the time myself as part of my jobs. Paring out things that are not useful (General Manager looks like a Mad Max villain!) or changing things that are not helpful due to inaccuracies (information that is useful to quest completion but that does not exist, i.e. follow the blue gems) is important to making the wiki better. However, moving/shifting/transferring information away from the saga's page and leaving it bare means that when people go looking for information specific to THAT saga, as I did when I started doing the saga, will find absolutely nothing that will help them make choices for that saga. When I search the wiki, and when friends of mine that I have talked with have searched the wiki, we tend to use the most exact search terms to get rid of unwanted results. 'Sun Blade' instead of 'sword'. 'The Grotto' instead of 'quest' or even 'Korthos quest'. And 'Pirates of the Thunder Sea' instead of 'saga'.

I'll put it this way. Individual quests have fairly detailed, if sometimes incomplete or lacking, walkthroughs that will help new players navigate these individual quests. I know that I have found these to be at least moderately helpful for the maps alone. Even the overview pages for individual Adventure Packs and Story Arcs provide some useful information about the storyline of the pack and/or an overview and helpful information about the individual Adventure Packs/Story Arcs. Hell, they even provide flavor text which, while it is very cool, has no bearing on the actual nuts and bolts of the Pack/Arc. I just think that the pages for the individual Sagas should be at least as helpful and provide information about things that are true about THAT saga. The Sentinels of Stormreach AP page tells the reader that they don't have to run Plugging The Leak to complete the storyline, so why not have a Saga page that gives a variety of useful information, such as "If you have a VIP account, these are generally considered the best individual quests to skip" with reasons why. Other quests, such as The Troglodytes Get, can have reasons why that the skip shouldn't be used on that quest, i.e. it's an automatic elite completion, but you have to run it anyway or you can't get the Garl's Tomb quest as actually completing the first is a prerequisite for getting the second.

I like the wiki. It has value. I just want it to be consistently valuable across the board, and the bare-bones pages for the individual sagas do not meet the standards that the individual quest, storyline, and adventure pack pages do. I don't want or need more writing credits, so I'm not after personal glory. I'll happily never ever contribute again if that's what it takes. Just please make the individual saga pages much more useful than they are, okay?

I've got a thesis to finish editing, so I'll stop here. Thanks for hearing me out and responding like a real human. I appreciate that more than you know. This post was made by me, MorpheusAlpha/Patrick/That Guy Who Won't Shut Up/whatever. Yes, that's my signature.