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Talk:Stone Prison
Bhgiant several times now I've asked you to post testing results to verify your edits. Due to your continously refusal to do so I've temporarily locked the page. I'd suggest you test it more carefully, post your results here, then edit it tommorow when the lock expires.
Some notes:
- Official ingame information is NEVER treated as verified information on the wiki. Not only because we want to be reliable and because the game's ingame description have historically been so wildly inaccurate, but also because it's a wiki and we pride ourselves on ingame testing and reliabilty.
- It's the very reason we have templates such as {{verified}} and {{official}}.. They should be used correctly and never blindly trust the ingame description.
- It has a precedent - It's lead to inaccurate info overwriting accurate info in the past. See Greater Two Handed Fighting. The player tested description was overwrited with the (still incorrect as its been for the last 6+ years) ingame description. It's not a helpful thing to do.
- I've asked you to post your test results here, please do so. I will trust your results if you post them clearly, but I'd also like to you follow wikiquette in communicating them and not relying on the users to blindly trust the often unreliable ingame information.
Shade 02:59, April 2, 2012 (EDT)
Hey Shade. Thanks for the feedback so far. All the answers to your questions can be found in the discussion thread (linked below) with my test results complete with screenshots. I would never ask the community to take anything blindly. I'm sure you will agree the results are very convincing. Concerning the DCs, it is good to be skeptical. As stated in the thread, I noticed no difference between the two boots' activation rate and therefore have no reason to believe the DC is different nor inaccurate. If you feel they are, please post your testing results that point to that conclusion. I would be very interested in collaborating with you on this. btw, still new to this wiki format. Forgive my learning curve :S
Bhgiant 03:41, April 2, 2012 (EDT)
I've reviewed the thread, it has nothing regarding the DC. Depending on how you tested, it's not revelant data. You didn't specify what you tested against, thus it could of been a monster with saving throws of 1, and thus easilt fails a 17 nearly the same as a 27. Easiest way to test DCs are in PvP.
Reason to believe the DC may be inaccurate: Historical evidence: Regular stone prison was always DC27, yet it used to list at DC17. There are doznes of other such examples where items list incorrect DCs.. It's a very common theme with turbine. So personally I never trust official descriptions, especially regarding DCs.
It's flagged as "official" now, which pretty much says the same thing, unverified.. Though just slightly differend wording, fine with me.
The works on flesh creatures or not still needs to be verified as Tech13 says his worked on earth elems, and i've seen ppl with the weapon version get skeletons and other stuff immune to f2stone. Tho the guard version may work different.
I don't have the boots, but I have a billion ingreds on lamannia, so if I get time i might get some and check it.
And yea welcome to the wiki, we appreciate your contributions. You are encouraged to change things you feel are wrong, but when a longtime editors modifies your edits, start a discussion before changing them back again, especially within such a short period of time. I did keep your edits regarding the procrate, just the formatting of official unverified information needs to be clear.
Shade 10:36, April 2, 2012 (EDT)
- Given the discussion, IMHO Bhgiant's edits are good. MY problem with the DCs was having lesser and regular being the same, but it makes sense if regular's improvement is the proc rate. Unless shown otherwise, there's no need to for an unverified tag. IMHO, the unverified tag should be used when there isn't official info either way, rather than when there is an actual official number but it hasn't been proven correct yet.
LrdSlvrhnd 04:34, April 2, 2012 (EDT)
- My reason for the undo I did, a sample size of 250 does not provide enough data for a reliable proc rate. Try 1000 hits with nothing else equiped to generate a reliable number (my epict1 boots proced far less then your sample would state while running devils assault, with a pale master lich, and epic mabar robe.)Also, proc rates are largly based on the item itself, rather then effect name. There's been many cases where effects vary between items, even with the same effect. (Epic Storm for instance has a higher proc rate for lightning strike then say a grrensteel item. As for the DC, test it in pvp against a level 1. If he saves on anything but a 20, the DC is correct. And if Shade didn't lock the topic, I would have... Yawgmoth 04:54, April 2, 2012 (EDT)